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Economic Impact
To keep you informed and stimulate your thinking, Stéfane Marion and Denis Girouard take a look at economic news and share their perspectives in our monthly informative videos.
Hello everyone. Welcome to Economic Impact. Today is May 2nd, 2025 and as usual, I am with our Chief Economist, Stéfane Marion. Hello, Stéfane.
Hello, Denis. It's been only two weeks since we saw each other, but it's been volatile in markets and actually, outside the U.S., people remain pretty confident. So every asset class, pretty much every asset class is up year to date now. It's a big change from early April, except one.
Except one.
Except one, which one?
South of the border.
It's U.S. equities, are still down 8% year to date. Still the uncertainty about the global economy, and particularly what the White House wants to do with this whole tariff structure.
And talking about tariffs, where are they now because they move quite a lot. The last time we were around 32% and now I think we're a little bit down, but not as much as probably we would hope.
I can tell you that, in my entire career, I've never seen tariffs move like that or moves like that. We went from 2 to 5 to 10 to 7 to 36 to 24. Now we stand at 23% as of today. So down from 26%, which was where we were just two weeks ago, but still overly punitive for the U.S. economy. So, I think that this needs to be settled. Everybody thinks it will come down, but how soon will they come down will dictate the U.S. economic performance and the performance of U.S. profits.
Yeah, because those tariffs are still pretty high, now we're starting to talk more about stagflation. And the ISM showed that inflation expected is high, but productivity is down too at the same time, which is not good.
Yeah, many corporations don't even provide guidance right now because they don't know what the tariff structure will be just in the next few weeks. So, what you see in the U.S., GDP was negative in Q1 for the first time in over three years. In manufacturing, production is down, which echoes what we saw on GDP. But notice Denis, the red line, prices are up. That could squeeze your profit margins. You're selling less and your input prices are rising. So, will you be able to sustain your earnings guidance under these circumstances? People don't know. Corporations don't know, they're dropping earnings guidance. And unlike the pandemic episode, if you want, the government is not sending cheques to households to allow prices to be fully reflected on the CPI. So, this means uncertainty about profit margins and profit growth and obviously the performance of the S&P 500.
Yeah, today we had the employment numbers in the United States.
Quite stable, despite everything we saw the past few weeks.
And
the White House was complacent and they're saying that this is the
proof that tariffs are not hurting the U.S. economy. I think we have
to be careful with that assessment Denis because historically,
corporations don't layoff people as soon as production comes down.
They wait a few months to say, is it improving or not? So, what we're
seeing in the U.S. is, yes, the unemployment rate has been stable
since the second half of last year, but will it be the same in the
next few months? I would venture to say that, if production does not
pick up, and I'm not so sure it will pick up, the unemployment rate is
likely to go up in the second half of this year. Now, from the Federal
Reserve perspective, can you really cut interest rates if inflation is
still rising? That's a big unknown. The market is very aggressive
right now, pricing in four rate cuts for the Federal Reserve. But if
it's a stagflationary component to U.S. economic growth they won't be
able to cut rates as aggressively, and that could fragilize the stock
market. So, this is very important. In the next few months, will the
U.S. see rising unemployment rates? And that will be the critical
element that will allow the president to be a lot less aggressive on tariffs.
Yeah, but he was happy this morning for sure.
Yes, but that means he can remain aggressive on tariffs, so I want him to be less aggressive.
Which is bad for that number.
So, exactly. So, the unemployment rate will be critical in the next few months.
If we come back in Canada. In Canada, you know, we had also the GDP number. GDP number is positive, you know, compared to the U.S., which was negative, but it has a bad trend right now.
So, yes. So, we're not going to be down on growth in Q1. So that's great news when you consider that. However, so we have positive growth, lackluster growth, you know, maybe 1.5%. But notice Denis that population is going at 2.8%. And this is the issue from a Canadian perspective: the blue line is supposed to grow faster than the red line, not the other way around. So, this is a critical development that needs to be addressed by our politician. We just had an election in Canada. We have a new Prime Minister that said that, you know the economy is a priority for him, so we need to fix this. Absolutely. This is not normal. We need to put policies in place that will foster an environment where the blue line grows faster than the red line.
And then, you know, talking about that, we need to talk about investment because at some point, you know, we still have that lag between the U.S. and Canada in terms of business investment, and that has to change.
So we need.
Mr. Carney has to tackle that one.
So basically, what you're telling me, we need to improve productivity and we can't just grow on population growth. And that means we need to bring business investment. I think you're right on that one. You're absolutely right on that one. And we haven't had, you know, business investment that has been stable or stagnant for the past decade. And that's unprecedented in Canadian history. So, the U.S., you know, business investment is more than doubled over in the U.S. over that period. So, this is the critical element. This needs to be, this has to be a priority for Mr. Carney. So he won't be staying home very long. So, this is a priority.
He's going to the White House next week.
You're right. So that's number one. So, in order to grow business investment, you need to attract or retain investment in this country or attract foreign direct investment in Canada. So, I need visibility on my access to the U.S. market. So that's point number one. You're absolutely right. The other one that we spoke too often is domestically, we need to abolish these interprovincial trade barriers in order to foster East-West production or trade.
Yeah, and we have to react on that because we keep talking about it, but we haven't seen anything yet that is coming and saying we drop that. We drop that. No, it's just words right now. And election.
You're right. And with the currency that continues to appreciate. So basically the Canadian dollar is appreciated more than tariffs have increased on Canada. So it doesn't really help our businesses. So not only do we not know if we have market access to U.S., the currency is appreciating, which is not necessarily great for earnings. So, this needs to be settled, and if the currency appreciates, why don't we show a little bit more, let's be a little bit more pragmatic. Let's reduce the regulatory environment because, you know, the Prime Minister says we need to spend more to invest more in the country, but it won't help if you have this very prohibitive regulatory environment that needs to be tackled. And, corporate income taxes as well as energy policies is a big unknown. So, these are all priorities that need to be addressed. Unfortunately, you don't have much time. So that needs to be addressed over the next three to six months.
Yeah. And we know that corporations will probably go South of the border because of everything going on right now. They want to produce product there to get access to that big market. Then having those foreigners coming to Canada, we're going to be, or we're going to need to be very, very attractive. Then he mentioned it, fiscality, you know, regulation, we need to do that fast. And you said it, Mr. Carney, will have a big agenda in the coming weeks if we want to see that curve moving up for the first time since a long period of time.
You're right that you can't coast just business investment. You know, the private sector just with government spending. It's more than that. It's the overall environment, the business environment. Are you business-friendly? Are you open for business or only so? So, yes, the priority is, as you said, renegotiate USMCA and tackle all the regulatory environment that reduces business investment in this country. And who knows Denis, if you do all this, I'm optimistic that they would reduce the valuation gap between the S&P TSX and the S&P 500. I think there's hope to be optimistic provided that the Prime Minister acts swiftly on all of these fronts.
So what do we do as investors? You know, we've been very prudent. We ask people to be very prudent, rightly so. Now we're seeing in some assets are doing better except the U.S., but we know that never good to short U.S. because that economy is very resilient.
You're absolutely right. However, I would say that there's probably a, you know, investors are probably looking at, is it normal to deploy so much capital in the U.S. if I have alternatives elsewhere? So, I think Europe is starting to provide an alternative. I want Canada to provide an alternative. So, from a relative performance standpoint, I still think that the U.S. is likely to underperform unless Mr. Trump backs down very aggressively on tariffs. So, but having said this, Denis, we have yet to see this happen. So, for that reason, still prudent in terms of our asset mix at this point in time.
Good. Thank you, Stéfane. Thank you to all of you to listening to us. And above all, don't miss our next meeting next June. Thank you.
Property Perspective
Our National Bank specialists decode the latest trends in the real estate market, including interest rates, the resale market and forecasts for the coming months.
Hello everyone and welcome to this November 28th edition of Property Perspective. Today I have the pleasure to be with Matthieu Arseneau, hello Matthieu.
Hi Simon.
And with Andrée Desrosiers.
Hello Simon.
Hello Andrée. Our topic of the day, what's best for my mortgage, a fixed or a variable rate. But before we enter that interesting discussion with Andrée, let's talk with Matthieu about recent economic news that influence the real estate market. So Matthieu, a number of events have occurred since we last spoke, all of which have an impact on the economic outlook, obviously. First, what are the implication of the Republican sweep in the US presidential election for economic growth and interest rates?
Yes, this was a big event and there will be application for that for Canada over the next four years. Higher uncertainty, we saw that with the announcement of potential tariff on Canada. We'll see. But clearly, in my mind, the big event and this has implication for the housing market in Canada, particularly for interest rates. It's the fact that there could be much more fiscal stimulus South of the border given the promises of Trump during the campaign. As you can see on that chart, while the Congressional Budget Office was expecting roughly 6% of GDP deficit, which is already very high, it could be as high as 8% if all those promises are realized by Mr. Trump. So at the moment the Federal Reserve is trying to calm inflation in the US, calm the economy. There's government that could support growth over the next few years. So before the election, the Federal Reserve started to decline rates. They did already 75 basis points. But you can see that at the same time it didn't mean that longer term rates decline. In fact, it increased because of risk of tariffs and its implication for inflation because of stronger growth, though that's something we have to keep in mind. And the problem with that increase is given a global correlation in interest rates, when you have the largest economy in the world supporting the economy and having those rates it has an impact on rates in countries with economies not as strong as the US and has to cope with those increases. And that could be difficult for a couple of other economies in the world given the increase of those of those rates. So big implication and that has implications for Canada as well.
Very interesting Matthieu, so the ability to lower the prime rate in the US now looks more limited. What about Canada?
In Canada, so we saw that in fact for investors expectation for the policy rate in the US, it was expected at 3%. Now it's much more closer to 4% by the end of next year. So clearly investors revised their optimism for rate cuts in the US. In Canada, the situation is clearly different in our view when you look at the labour market here, I'm showing the jobless wait for the prime age workers, the 25-54, it has continued to increase over the past few months. And that's diverging with the US and it's now its highest since 2017. And we don't see stabilization over the next few months given the hiring intention of corporations. So for us that's a sign that the economy has cooled significantly and this is reflected in inflation. When you look at services, core services excluding shelter in the US, it's running at 4.4% because they didn't have that weakness that we got in Canada, it's so it's running at 1.3%. So clearly inflation is under control here. So yes, we expect the Bank of Canada to continue to decline rates. Prior to recent announcements, we were expecting policy rate as low as 2% by the end of next year. But given the transfer that was also announced by the federal government, it could lead to upwardly revise a bit. We'll see if it will be implemented. But clearly as you can see on that chart, while Bank of Canada is declining rates, 10 year rate is increasing and is essentially in its last two years average at this point. So not that much relief for long term rates. So that's something to keep in mind. But for that reason, perhaps it's another reason for the Canada to try to push down those rates by having short term rates very low. So that's our expectation at this time, OK.
Matthieu, the government has announced recently an additional break on population growth for the next three years. What are the implications of this new announcement on the real estate market?
We talked about it very often over the past few months. Housing shortage is still very acute in Canada. We see that in the rental market with rent still increasing at a tepid pace. Same thing for first time home buyers. It's where affordability is still a problem. So I think it's the good decision to calm down population growth. In fact, with the recent announcement about the declining non permanent resident to 5% of population over a 2 year. Reducing permanent resident temporarily, that will lead for— when you look at the five year period, when we look in 2028, the pace for the next 5 years will be similar to what we had prior to the pandemic level, much more sustainable and much more in line with our capacity to welcome. So, I think it's a good decision at this point given housing shortage. And we have to keep in mind newcomers have problems to integrate the labour market in the current context. So let's fix that situation and get back to normal after this three-year period of slow growth and we will be able to get back to the model we had that was benefiting the Canadian economy prior to the pandemic.
So finally good news. Thank you, Matthieu for your very interesting comments. Let's now discuss with Andrée, hello Andrée. In the context of the anticipated drop of the interest rate by the end of this year and obviously in 2025, should we go with a fixed rate or variable rate for our mortgage?
Very good questions Simon and indeed very relevant. The choice between a fixed rate and a variable rate for a mortgage depends on several factors, especially in the context of falling rates. Our risk tolerance, financial situation and short and mid economic outlook are key, you know, considerations to look at. We must first understand the bearish rate context, however, When the Bank of Canada lowers its prime rate, financial institutions typically adjust, you know, their mortgage rates in response to that downsize. Variable rates will generally follow primary fluctuations and become particularly advantageous in the short term. Fixed rates, although often higher than variable rates at the time of subscription, offer protection against potential future increases. We must however remember that they usually follow the interest rate on long term bonds and not the Bank of Canada prime rate. Therefore, a quarter point drop in the prime rate does not mean that fixed rate will fall by the same amount.
OK. We must therefore understand this context carefully before making our decision. You're right, Andrée. Many people assume that when there's a drop in the prime rate, all rates fluctuate in the same way. However, as we have just seen, that isn't the case since different rates are influenced by different factors. With that in mind, Andrée, what are the advantages of one or the other?
Yeah. If we look first, you know, at the variable rate, you should consider that rate if you believe that interest rates will continue to decline or stay low for an extended period of time. You can also choose the variable rate if you're comfortable with some level of risk and can handle or afford, you know, potential payment increases if rates rise. Also if you want to benefit from lower penalties, if you decide to pay off your mortgage early or switch lenders. Also, some variable rates loans offer the option to switch to a fixed rate if rates increase. On the other hand, you should consider, you know, a fixed rate if you prefer stability and want to avoid uncertainty, if you think rates might rise in the midterm and again, if your budget cannot accommodate sudden increases in monthly payments.
So once again, Andrée, the choice does not automatically go towards one or the other. Even if we are in the context of falling rates. As you mentioned, we must make sure to take other elements into account in our decision. You are very right Simon. And we must also not forget that some lenders offer mixed rate mortgages, you know, part fixed, part variables. So this approach allows you to balance the advantages of both options and reducing risk while still benefiting partially from falling rates. So in summary, you know in a falling rate environment, a variable rate may seem more advantageous in the short term, but it remains a bet on future rate trends. If you're comfortable with some uncertainty, a variable rate could maximize your savings. However, if peace of mind is your priority, a fixed rate is the safer choice. It all depends like usual on your financial profile and financial goals. To help you in your choice as usual, do not hesitate to consider or consult a mortgage specialist to assess your personal situation and provide you the right advice for that choice.
Thank you Andrée for sharing your insights. As you suggested, having a discussion with a mortgage specialist will help make the right decision. There's no point about that. So thank you all for watching and join us again very soon for our next edition of Property Perspective.
5 • 4 • 3 Market Outlook
5 minutes, 4 graphs, 3 key takeaways! Discover a fresh focused quarterly review of markets, the economy and investments with expert Louis Lajoie from our CIO Office.
Hello everyone. Today, June 5, we're going to take as usual just a few minutes to look back on what turned out to be quite a spectacular quarter and then look ahead and try to shed some light on what may lie ahead, always with a good dose of humility given prevailing uncertainties.
What made last quarter so spectacular was obviously the bombshell tariff announcement of April 2, which sent U.S. equity markets falling by about just 10% in just two days as recession risks were actually doubling, which was definitely a non-sustainable situation, which effectively lead, just a week later, to a 90-day pause and a substantial rebound. This was actually the third best day for U.S. equity markets in the last 6 decades. But behind that there was an escalation in tariffs with China, which was equally unsustainable and also lead ultimately to a 90-day pause this time in May, which brings us to today with recession risks still higher than usual but somewhat stabilizing as equity markets have recouped most of their losses.
When we look at what this all means for a globally diversified portfolio in Canadian dollars, this all means that we are essentially back to where we were last February. That is marginally positive, somewhere between 0% and 5% depending on your risk profiles, thanks to equity markets outside of the U.S. which continue to do better this the last few months, notably in Canada, but also elsewhere overseas. So, a lot of volatility, but ultimately not too much damage down the road. This was largely the expectations as we entered the year and that remains our expectations as we look forward, although there is obviously still potential for surprises. Specifically, what we'll be looking at is the actual impact on the economy of all that has happened since the start of the year, because for now, the impact is mostly being felt in sentiment surveys, for instance, consumer sentiment, which is according to some surveys, near its weakest in the last 35 years, which is quite a contrast with the actual state, the concrete data of where the economy is with things like inflation or the unemployment rate, which if you look at the most recent data was anything but dramatic. Now, there are some pockets of weaknesses here and there. We've got to be careful, but overall, nothing overly dramatic.
For as long as fluctuations in tariffs remain limited going forward and the U.S. administration remains focused on reaching so-called trade deals – and that is in their interest –, odds are that the reconnection between sentiment and reality will happen at a level not overly problematic for the economy and not overly problematic for equity markets accordingly, where we have seen some sort of the same trend with sentiment surveys from investors actually showing the most pessimism in the last 35 years. Ironically, this is typically a sign that the worst is actually already behind us. Now as in any rule, there's always exceptions. So, we've got to be careful here. Equities have rebounded already quite a bit as we've talked about just a few minutes ago. But again, it does suggest that bearing a global recession – and we don't foresee one for now –, odds are that the path of least resistance for equities will actually remain upward for the remainder of the year.
Three takeaways for now. Again, more fear than harm, so far. We've seen markets react sharply to these tariff announcements, with initially consumers, businesses, investors, sentiment surveys plunging. That sent a strong signal to Washington, which effectively changed its tone, a change in tone that remains fragile, much like the economy and it also remains fragile. The coming months will be very revealing on both fronts. We should get more precision as to all the parameters of their economic agenda and the scale, the amplitude of the economic slowdown that will result from these policy changes. Stay tuned, but this promises to be a volatile summer period. But again, bearing a global recession, which we don't foresee, odds are that equities will remain well footed, especially outside of the U.S., which is a trend that we see ongoing for the remainder of the year.
Thank you for listening. Have a great summer everyone, and we will talk again in September.
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